Stealership at it's finest...

"AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams" (absintheminded) 06/27/2016 at 11:39 • Filed to: None

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I should have known better...

My wife has a 2014 Ford Escape Titanium with the 2.0l Turbo.

She talked me into driving from Atlanta to Miami about a month ago to see her family, and we noticed an issue with her A/C. In the middle of the FL turnpike, 163° and 180% humidty,after about 500000000 hours of driving with those godamnedpeoplethatrideintheleftlanedoing40underthespeedlimit her blower motor maintained the same speed, but the airflow dropped to a mouse sneeze and the temperature jumped up considerably. I immediately figured we sucked a gator/armadillo/turtle/swan/etc... off the road and it was clogging the cabin air filter. I pulled the filter and it wasn’t too terribly dirty. After a stop for some food at the service station, we started the car back up and were greeted by the pleasant feeling of properly chilled air. I then assumed it was a sensor somewhere. The research began.

Cut to today where my wife had the day free, and she drove to our local Fuuuuurd dealer to have the problem addressed: TSB 14-0006. The evap sensor was designed poorly, and will freeze, causing it to stop functioning. A quick search on good ole YouTube, and I found this:

My wife wanted to have the dealer fix it under that TSB (evap sensor) as well as have the airbag recall that was open for her car addressed. My wife spoke to the dealer and told the advisor when she arrived what the symptoms were and she said “My husband found this TSB which might solve the problem...”

Fast forward 2 hours, and they tell her, it’s the evap sensor. (oh reeeeeealllly?) The service manager then told my wife that the evap sensor is deep in the dash, will take 2 days to get out and cost a whopping $388 to fix + the diagnostic fee of $200. I told her to leave. A quick !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! search reveals that the part is $7.00 + shipping and takes about 20 seconds to take off and replace, and that is if I don’t do the fix that Ford prescribed on the TSB. I am not sure where the other ~$381 goes. The service manager said “I doubt your husband can touch any of this without the right tools.”

The only tool I don’t need is that jackass.

fourvalleys > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:48

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My company has a lot of Escapes as fleet cars. Every single one in my department has had the A/C die at some point. Really good stuff.

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:49

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I wonder if this is what is happening in the FoST.....

LongbowMkII > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:49

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Do the swap in front of their garage door.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > LongbowMkII 06/27/2016 at 11:50

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I should. Go out there and show the manager how easy it is. Charge him for the education.

Needmoargarage > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:52

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Proudest moment I’ve had is watching my wife call BS at a shop and explaining the component/system better than the service adviser.

Dealers are so hit and miss...I’ve found a somewhat negative review on Google can prompt a quick call back begging to right a wrong. Not that I rely on that tactic, but it has happened to me before with trying to get warranty and recall work done.

TooLazyToNotBurner > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:52

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Ask for 10% of every $388 he takes for doing just for teaching him how.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:53

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Our 2015 explorer has a leak in an AC hose that apparently requries the subframe to be removed to replace. The dealer got the part, dropped the subframe only to find the hose they ordered has the wrong connector. At least it’s under warranty, and they are recharging it until the part comes in.

My bird IS the word > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:55

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You should go to the dealer and show them this video. Then threaten to get their franchise rights pulled. Don’t let them fuck with you. This made me extremely angry that it can be fixed with wire cutters and they have the audacity to try and charge you that.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > Needmoargarage 06/27/2016 at 11:55

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Well played. My wife heard him say “$388 and 2 days” and thought “wait a damn minute.”

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 06/27/2016 at 11:56

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I wish her car was still under warranty but her 2-3 trips to Miami around the time our son was born has pushed her to almost 50k.

Stapleface > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 11:57

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But if there’s a TSB about it, isn’t that kind of Ford acknowledging there’s an issue with it? And, wouldn’t this be a warranty issue anyway?

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > Stapleface 06/27/2016 at 12:02

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Well that’s what is funny. I called a friend who is a Ford-Master-Fixer-Engineer ™ and he told me that a TSB is a recognition of a design fault but most dealerships aren’t interested in dealing with TSBs. Mainly because it costs them $ up front for the parts and Ford will reimburse them. Either way, trust is lost.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > My bird IS the word 06/27/2016 at 12:04

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My wife showed the video I sent her to the service manager. He wasn’t interested at all. (I attempted to arm her with all the info she needed for this visit).

I am not sure if that has to do with the fact they assumed her to be “a typical ignorant female owner” or what, but it is unacceptable to me to treat any owner that way.

jariten1781 > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:05

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Sounds typical. I won’t let a dealer touch anything, even under warranty, unless it’d take me longer than a day to do at home. Too many bad experiences.

My experience (multiple brands, multiple states, multiple dealers in each) is that even when they do the job without trying to rip you off the work is sloppier than I’d do at home so I end up taking it apart and re-assembling it anyway. Ex: Water pump was leaking on our old GTI during warranty. Dealer was very nice and speedy at getting it in and repaired. Ran fine when completed and no longer leaking, but: two wiring clamps were not remounted, one intercooler clamp was loose, one bolt (of 3) on the pump was not replaced, and the bumper (which apparently was removed) was replaced with a bunch of washers instead of the correct spacer leading to an uneven gap on the right side. Would it have caused any problems? Probably not, but 'professional' should mean something.

Stapleface > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:07

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Well, look at the bright side. Now you know where not to go to buy the wife's next car.

E92M3 > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:08

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I once worked with one of those “conspiracy theorist” type guys. He had a lot of crazy things to say, but the older I get, the more I realize he was right about 1 thing.

“Trust no one, everything in this world is centered around greed”.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > jariten1781 06/27/2016 at 12:09

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100000 times this.

I blame my desire for a free coolant evac and fill along with a new cabin air filter which is all part of the TSB. I should have just saved my wife’s time and done it myself when I pulled the sensor last night.

Nerd-Vol > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:11

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Probably that they just don’t care. I’m certain they have enough customers and they aren’t too concerned about losing your business.

Needmoargarage > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:11

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That’s good thinking. Can’t believe the amount of people that just blindly accept whatever they are told...

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > Nerd-Vol 06/27/2016 at 12:14

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Unfortunately I agree.

functionoverfashion > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:16

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The AC on my wife’s 2005 Volvo stopped working rather early in the car’s life (~60k?) and the dealer’s only suggested fix was to replace the compressor. It turns out the clutch was worn out from the fact that the ac comes on every single time you start the car, so the clutch gets a little wear every single time. I can’t remember the details but basically you could shim (or de-shim?) the clutch and buy yourself another huge chunk of time - because the compressor itself was fine. It wasn’t even that sketchy, it might have been an old Volvo TSB type of thing that wasn’t applied to the newer models even though it could have been... you get the idea. My shimming kept it working for the rest of the life of the car.

My bird IS the word > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:24

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Its entirely up to you, but Ford corporate might have something to say about that. I don’t know if they will take action, but they can pull their ford franchise rights so the dealer can’t use their logo or get any new cars in. Depends on how far you want to go (and what proof you have) but if you can eliminate any source of evil in this world I say go for it.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:37

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I’d fill out the form for you if I could:

https://corporate.ford.com/contact-us.htm…

Scroll down to email and hit Ford Service Issues

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 06/27/2016 at 12:46

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The more I thought about it, the more irritated I got. I will do that form and I have reached out to the general manager of the store to see what he has to say about all of this.

Takuro Spirit > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 12:55

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Hmm. I found a different TSB with the same symptoms and repair, but still its only an hour job.

Buncha scam artists.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 13:01

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There are people who’s jobs are literally to wait for people to complain about these types of issues. Think about it this way, if you don’t complain Ford can’t yell at the dealership, then they continue being a stealership.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > Takuro Spirit 06/27/2016 at 13:01

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I am willing to bet I could show my 1.5 year old son how to do this and it would take less than an hour.

Buncha scam artists indeed.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > My bird IS the word 06/27/2016 at 13:02

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I notified corporate. Not really expecting much, but I totally agree with your desire to eliminate evil or at least expose it.

Funktheduck > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 13:05

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Similar experience when the starter in my old Corolla died.

“It’ll be about $450 before tax”

“Why?”

“Well, the starter is about $225 but it comes with a 6 month warranty. And then it’s 2 hours labor”

“Why is it 2 hours? The starter is right there on top?”

“Well, you see, we have to take off the intake just to get to it.”

Went to autozone. $80 (with lifetime wareanty) and 45 minutes of my time. If I had to do it again I could do it in 20. Most of that time was trying to figure out how to get the bottom bolt out without having to jack up and get under the car like YouTube suggested. It was also July so it was super hot. Took my time.

Oh, and taking off the intake just involved taking the tube from the air box to the throttle body off.

PotbellyJoe and 42 others > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 13:05

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This is partially true. My wife was a former warranty administrator. The issue isn’t the getting paid later (most dealer money is delayed a few days/weeks) it’s the “Oh that wasn’t 100% to the TSB/Recall/Warranty specs so we’re zeroing the claim.” and dealers don’t like to, or in many states can’t, chase customers for work already performed.

It’s better now than it used to be, but it’s a game between the Manufacturers and the Dealers. The Manufacturers claim that it’s a matter of getting the paperwork 100% from the dealers and incentive to do so is getting paid in a timely fahion, if at all, the dealers claim it’s the manufacturers being bureaucratic asshats, in the end the customer is who suffers.

TSBs suck, and Toyota was the worst for them. “It’s not a recall, the 2007 FJ Cruiser was never recalled, it’s a TSB” kind of crap.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 06/27/2016 at 13:06

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Good point. Form filed. We will see what happens I suppose.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > PotbellyJoe and 42 others 06/27/2016 at 13:09

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Wonderful insight. It doesn’t make me any happier but you know, it makes sense...

Chasaboo > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 13:26

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“The only tool I don’t need is that jackass.”

Awesome line bro. And I owned a Ford once, what a freaking nightmare. My heart goes out to you.

AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams > functionoverfashion 06/27/2016 at 13:36

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I remember something similar with the paint guy’s Oldsmobile Toronado (a ‘66 maybe) when I worked at a resto shop during college. You could shim the compressor on the A/C and it would hold on a little longer. That was some janky stuff though, happy your’s held on for you!

Frenchlicker > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 14:49

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I'm not sure about a dealership but most places charge what maybe $50 for an AV recharge. So I assume maybe double that for and evac and recharge. Being a dealer I'm going to assume $20-$30 for an air filter. So all in before labor maybe $160 if you include the little random crap they use and include. How long does a discharge take, surely it cannot make the process take 2+ hours. As ridiculous as the diagnostic fee is I don't blame them for trying to scam that money away, those machines are pricey.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 15:13

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If anything how long did it take to fill out the form? Not much commitment from your end to potentially get them in trouble.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 06/27/2016 at 21:23

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But warranty is warranty. It’s necessary. And anyways we lose money up front just stocking parts. Any dealers using this line of thinking to avoid helping customers need to be taken out back.

I would go to another dealer if at all possible, just on principle. East fix obviously but they really ought to take care of it. Not doing so is stupid.

TSB’s are only covered under warranty if the rest of the vehicle is covered under warranty. They do not extend warranty or imply that it’s described repair is covered. But even if you are out by a couple months or a few thousand miles, most dealers will goodwill something, especially something as cheap and easy as that. That being said, they probably won’t cover the cabin filter either way because it is a maintenance item.

PS. Can’t get over the the buck teeth on the guy in the video. I’m a bad person.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > jariten1781 06/27/2016 at 21:38

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That’s really shitty that they would consider that kind of work acceptable. No shop should allow sub par work to go out the door. For example, in my shop very recently, corporate had an issue with some of our paperwork that led them to suspect the work wasn’t done. So they came out and looked at the cars we worked on but could not tell at all that they had been worked on. So we had to find other ways to prove it (skill/speed/knowledge at/of said job and having all of the old parts to give them).

Please do yourself and others a favor when that kind of cheap happens and let the dealer know, even if you don’t take the car back in. They [should] track that sort of thing to get a better idea of which techs are good and which need to improve, or potentially find new jobs. Unless management is incredibly proactive (which requires sacrificing a fair amount of income potential) the only way they know who needs to improve is by tracking comebacks and complaints. If they don’t care about what you have to say then they’re not worth doing business with.

Sorry for the length/"rant"

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Frenchlicker 06/27/2016 at 21:52

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Not that I’m trying to defend that dealer, because hell no. Just want to clarify some AC procedure stuff. Sorry in advance if you don’t care.

Recharging AC without recovering first is stupid because you have no idea how much you’re putting in. Yes, it can work, but it’s not the best idea.

Recovery takes ~20 minutes depending on the machine and capacity of the system.

Evacuation should be bare minimum 15 minutes, longer if the system has been opened or empty for a while.

Inject leak dye and charge, maybe 5 minutes.

Then you have function testing electrical parts, making sure operating pressures are normal, and making sure it blows cold. Then you have to check the whole system for visual for leaks. Or with a sniffer if that’s your preferred method.

Most shops charge the customer 1-1.5 hours plus refrigerant and leak dye, and IMO, that’s perfectly reasonable assuming the tech actually does his due diligence and takes care of the customer.

Frenchlicker > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 06/27/2016 at 22:18

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See, that makes it make a bit more sense. With less of that included the price seems fairly reasonable. They dealer is also being reasonable because they referred to a tsb and he was going to follow the instructions on it. What is unreasonable is the amount dealerships charge for labor hours considering it isn’t relayed back to the tech.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Frenchlicker 06/27/2016 at 23:08

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Completely agree. I wrote out some other replies in this post saying much the same and probably over-elaborating if I’m honest.

Frenchlicker > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 06/27/2016 at 23:29

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I can believe having to drop the subframe. Many of the ford designs for the last 20 years have had things like that. Currently I am trying to replace a power steering hose without dropping the subframe, talk about hell. I assume that is why my car has an inoperable AC too.

e36Jeff now drives a ZHP > AbsintheMinded: NeonHeatDreams 07/06/2016 at 17:26

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I don’t understand why they wanted to charge you at all(much less the $388 for a $7 part with a 20 second install time). Unless the car has very high mileage on it, it should still be under warranty, the TSB clearly indicates they know it is a defect, and its not a wear item.